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The scarf joint, again.....

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:17 am
by Robert Hosmer
Has anyone found it to be worthwhile to "pin" the scarf joint?
I realize with proper surfacing and today's modern adhesives it may not be needed for this application; maybe that's why none of the guitarmaking books I've read mention it. But surely someone does it, or has done it, or has thought about it.
I can't let lessons learned in an earlier cabinetmaking life go away; the rule was if you're not gluing grain face-to-face, always pin the joint. True, the headplate veneer ties the joint together, but still...

BTW, I'm working with a 15 degree angle on the headstock. I have no idea what the standard is, or if a "standard" even exists.

Hardwood dowel would be fairly simple to work with; I've got both 1/4" and 1/8". Given the 1/2" thickness of the headstock, the 1/4" is most likely pushing it, especially if I thin the headstock even more to accomodate a backplate. The 1/8" wood dowel might not provide enough additional strength to make the operation worthwhile.
I also have plenty of 1/8" drill rod, though that would require a slightly more involved approach.

Maybe I'm "fretting" over nothing (my daughter learned the definition of the word "pun" last week) and it would be a waste of time.
But I have to ask.

Any thoughts on this?

Re: The scarf joint, again.....

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:44 am
by ken cierp
No need to pin the scarf joint, there's plenty of glue surface plus the veneer sort of ties it together as well. As a matter of fact we will be releasing scarf joint necks very soon. Taylor now uses scarf joint necks as well as some finger-joint models. No solid necks! In addition to wise use of material this style neck is indeed stronger then a solid neck blank since the problems with head-stock angle grain convergence is over come. Even old time luthiers knew this --- in fact the Martin volute originally was a joint formed as the result of gluing the head-stock to the arm of the neck --- today it just a decoration. I do pin the heel block. Although ours is a proprietary tool I can say that properly clamping and gluing the scarf joint can be tricky. Both pieces must be captured to prevent any movement, actually a couple of dowels would be helpful in prevent the two parts from sliding apart as clamping pressure is applied. But the dowels would add to the complexity of the process ---- I think? I recommend making some practice parts to get a feel for the pit falls. It goes without saying that the surfaces have to be perfectly flat.

Re: The scarf joint, again.....

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:22 pm
by Robert Hosmer
Thanks, Ken.
Sorta had the feeling I was overthinking it.

I'm using a "traditional" blank (4"H x 3"W), the type that would usually yield 2 one-piece necks if it were long enough (30"?), but this piece is shorter.
This is an offcut from a salvaged beam out of a house, but it's got the grain oriented exactly as needed, and it's old and solid. Since this piece is shorter (20"), I figured I could get the heel and shaft as one piece, and use the wood from the waste cut for the headstock.
So if I'm thinkin' correctly, the best of both worlds- a clean transition at the heel, with the strength of the scarf joint.

You mentioned pinning the heel block. Do you think that would be beneficial in my situation (heel and shaft one piece)?

Thanks, much appreciated.

Re: The scarf joint, again.....

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:35 pm
by ken cierp
No need to pin a solid heel --- I am doing it because Taylor does it on theirs. I doubt its even necessary with the block heel --- today's adhesive are so strong. Yes I use Titebond original.

Re: The scarf joint, again.....

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:14 pm
by Rienk Ayers
I am interested in doing a special scarf joint like Taylor uses.
does anyone know what the profile is of their joint, so that the two pieces actually interlock with each other?
I would like to have a shaper cutter made in that profile so that I can have the neck head joint be a perfect (non-slip) joint.
Thanks!