mailorder bracewood?

[peter havriluk]

If you're buying bracewood sight unseen, are there 'safe' choices among woods? I've seen vendors spread their prices 100 percent on bracewood and I don't know whether the five-dollar hunk of Engelmann can be used instead of the ten-dollar hunk of red spruce. Or whether the differences matter to a beginning builder, I'm not going to wind up with anything that should be shown in the presence of working luthiers, but I do want to avoid mistakes and making poor choices that could be avoided.

Thanks, folks.

[ken cierp]

Make sure its dry and cut it carefully -- as I show here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=253
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=443

Makes no difference where you buy it, same basics apply

[peter havriluk]

Still wondering about wood species....any significant differences among them that warrants the pricing spread?

[Robert Hosmer]

Still wondering about wood species....any significant differences among them that warrants the pricing spread?

There are several factors that may impact the price you pay.
But concerning the price differential between species, I suspect it's just like any other business- supply and demand.

"Short supply" can lead to higher price, whereas abundance can lead to lower pricing. Simply put, if it's harder to get, it's probably gonna be more expensive.
Likewise, high demand can raise the price, as that will impact the supply.
This concept applies to nearly everything we purchase, whether it be groceries, gasoline, or wood.

To further illustrate, here are some different scenarios. (Not actual statements to be nitpicked for accuracy, but simple examples to illustrate.)

1. A vendor is located smack dab in the middle of the US.
He wants some Red spruce from a supplier in Maine, and an equal amount of Engelmann spruce from a supplier in Colorado. He would like each to be same quality and condition (grade).
Because his side of the country has been heavily logged for decades, the supplier from Maine may have to spend more time and effort ($$) to get wood that satisfies the minimum quality standards.
This is an example of supply impacting the price.

2. A new builder is told that he should use the stiffest possible wood (in relation to dimensions and weight) for his bracing.
So he does some "wood research", and concludes that, on average, the Red spruce is supposed to be the stiffest of all the spruces (20-25% "stiffer" than the Engelmann).
Well, surely that's the one to use!
So he decides to purchase Red, and has increased the demand for a product in short supply.

3. A player approaches a builder and wants a "true bluegrass guitar" made. As the discussion continues, it becomes evident that the build is fast becoming higher in cost than what the player (customer) expected.
Sensing this, the builder tells the customer, "You know, I've got a boatload of Sitka spruce already split up in the back. The material properties between Sitka and Red are darned near exactly the same; nobody except us will know the difference, and nobody will ever hear a difference. I know you wanna use Red for the soundboard, but if we used Sitka for the bracing, we could save a few dollars with no loss to build quality."
To which the customer replies, "Are you serious? What would my buddies say if they ever found out? I would be the laughing stock of the entire county!"
The builder says, "OK, it was just an idea."
So the demand is maintained.

Same concepts apply to "German" (European) spruce, proving that price is not always an indicator that a certain species of wood is "better".
Concerning overall average material properties, German spruce is very similar to our Engelmann.
But the German is significantly more expensive than the Sitka which, theoretically, may have more "desirable" properties for a particular build than Engelmann.
Not only are you importing from a far-away geographical location, you're also sourcing from an area that has been heavily logged for centuries.
With the shortcomings of the supply side of the equation now evident, the problem is further aggravated when the demand is maintained; e.g., "This is what the European masters used, so it's what I need to use.", or, "The top is German spruce, and I always use matching bracing."


I am not qualified to tell you what to use, even if I knew the specifics of your build.
But hopefully this helps you understand the "pricing game" a little better. Of course, there are several other factors, but supply/demand are primary pricing considerations in any business.

No matter which species you decide to use, the recommendations concerning preparation given by Ken and others here certainly apply.
I've simply seen too many scenarios where the well-tuned passenger car outperforms the sports car running on two dead cylinders. IOW, a "less-than-desirable" species that is properly prepared to maximum potential is preferable to "the best" species that is ill-prepared.


Rob

[peter havriluk]

Thanks, folks, very much. Pictures ARE worth a thousand words. Each. Got me some lessons in wood selection, species differences, and the attention to detail of the wood preparation trumping a whole lot of nominal differences between wood species.

Much obliged.

[Tom West]

I prefer billets rather than saw boards. It allows one more control over grain direction especially runout.
Tom