Some may have noticed the grinding of a ton of ivory in Times Square recently. The message it sent was chilling, as indeed it was intended to be. The elephants from which the ivory was obtained were not immortal, and like all of us eventually will be, they were already dead and unable to contribute to the continuation of their species. But many think an outright ban on the sale of any ivory will nonetheless contribute to the health of the species. And so NY has what appears to be a near ban on its resale.
I have a small stash of ivory parts I purchased from David Warther, a noted reseller of pre-ban ivory, and respected expert on the laws associated with its purchase and resale. I wrote him asking whether I can resell the material I received from him. His answer:
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John,
Pre-ban ivory can and does sell in the US without license or permit - no license or permit is required nor are any available because none are needed. It is illegal to sell pre-ban ivory in NY or NJ but it is legal in all other 48 states. I cannot provide a certificate of pre-act origin for ivory you have bought in the past but I do provide it when people order it and request the certificate. The certificate is not needed for re-sale of the item.
You can sell your items so long as they are for US buyers and not to NY or NJ.
Sincerely ,
David Warther
2561 Crestview Dr. NW
Dover , Ohio
44622
Phone : 330-343-1865
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I did get a certificate with each order, but there is but one signed, embossed certificate, and many parts. And the certificates amount to simply one civilian who owns an embossing machine making an assertion to another.
There are many statements rampant on the Information Highway, some quite exaggerated. Here is a reasonable, expert statement dated 2009 by David Warther that is very complete, though probably somewhat out of date with respect to the latest legal efforts to inhibit the sale of elephant ivory. Contains some information about the useability of all ivory, including that from non-elephant sources, that is useful for guitar making, even though it is addressed to pool cue makers.
http://www.cuemakers.org/aboutivory.php
Ivory
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Dave Bagwill
- Posts: 5951
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:44 pm
Re: Ivory
Thanks for the information John - this was a subject that, until now, I knew virtually nothing about.
-Under permanent construction
Re: Ivory
I wish more people would look at the situation. David Warther sells strips of ivory 8-10 inches long, 1/8 x 1/8 cross section, that can be bent into binding after soaking in water. They are much more interesting to look at than plastic ivroid, which attempts to replicate the way the real stuff looks. You join them with scarf joints as you go around the instrument. To ensure the longevity of the finished product, Warther pays close attention to the grain of the tusk in making his cuts, which are extremely accurate. The cost is about $25 per strip, which is expensive, but there is nothing else on earth that looks quite like the real stuff.
He claims ivory nuts and saddles transmit sound better than any other material, even though bone is slightly harder. Others say bone is just as good. But bone does not have the grain nor the translucency and glow of ivory that is at least as good sonically as bone. Properly cut and polished, it is also just as durable. Improperly cut, ivory is less long lived. If anyone is interested in the material, David Warther is a good source.
My view is that the plight of the African elephant is threatened more by the encroaching of the ever expanding human population into their territory than by poachers. They require an enormous amount of vegetation every day for their sustenance, hundreds of pounds. And they poop hundreds of pounds each day as well. When they invade towns, their poop can be a problem, though there are places that now offer paper made from it. They are the world's largest land animals and travel in herds, which inhibit human transportation systems, destroy crops, cause human injuries and fatalities, and destroy property and require that humans take cover when they move through urban areas. In many ways, they have become pests, but pests of formidable size and large numbers. Whenever such conflicts between humans and animals exist, humans inevitably win, usually by reducing the animal population. To that end, chemical castration of elephants is routinely practiced by some African nations. It does not kill elephants, but it certainly reduces their population, which is the same ultimate outcome. To be sure, fencing, herding, creation of pathways to allow herds to move unobstructed, and other measures are employed. They are more expensive and less effective than managing the elephant population itself. I wonder what would happen if the same herds of elephants roamed our country and created the same problems. What would we do? The history of the American bison suggests an answer, and also suggests the most relevant process that is going on in Africa that has resulted in loosing the elephant population (though there are still some 600,000 of them in the wild). Increasing legitimate trade in ivory increases the value of the elephants, motivating both nations and the ivory business to maintain sustainable, reliable sources of quality product. Poachers don't care, except for what they can harvest today.
Of course, the war on poachers must continue, but destroying a ton of ivory in a public spectacle drives up prices, which may become motive for poachers to increase, not decrease their activities. And it decreases the motivation for legit business to remain involved in the process. As we often say around here, my two cents.
In any case, Warther is a good source for legitimate, well cut ivory, and seems committed to continue doing so as long as the government permits him. He offers bone too, and I expect it is as well chosen and well cut as his ivory. His selection certainly is much richer than what I find in the standard luthier supply houses. And he will cut custom sizes in any of the materials he offers. In my case, there was no up charge except for the value of the additional material.
He claims ivory nuts and saddles transmit sound better than any other material, even though bone is slightly harder. Others say bone is just as good. But bone does not have the grain nor the translucency and glow of ivory that is at least as good sonically as bone. Properly cut and polished, it is also just as durable. Improperly cut, ivory is less long lived. If anyone is interested in the material, David Warther is a good source.
My view is that the plight of the African elephant is threatened more by the encroaching of the ever expanding human population into their territory than by poachers. They require an enormous amount of vegetation every day for their sustenance, hundreds of pounds. And they poop hundreds of pounds each day as well. When they invade towns, their poop can be a problem, though there are places that now offer paper made from it. They are the world's largest land animals and travel in herds, which inhibit human transportation systems, destroy crops, cause human injuries and fatalities, and destroy property and require that humans take cover when they move through urban areas. In many ways, they have become pests, but pests of formidable size and large numbers. Whenever such conflicts between humans and animals exist, humans inevitably win, usually by reducing the animal population. To that end, chemical castration of elephants is routinely practiced by some African nations. It does not kill elephants, but it certainly reduces their population, which is the same ultimate outcome. To be sure, fencing, herding, creation of pathways to allow herds to move unobstructed, and other measures are employed. They are more expensive and less effective than managing the elephant population itself. I wonder what would happen if the same herds of elephants roamed our country and created the same problems. What would we do? The history of the American bison suggests an answer, and also suggests the most relevant process that is going on in Africa that has resulted in loosing the elephant population (though there are still some 600,000 of them in the wild). Increasing legitimate trade in ivory increases the value of the elephants, motivating both nations and the ivory business to maintain sustainable, reliable sources of quality product. Poachers don't care, except for what they can harvest today.
Of course, the war on poachers must continue, but destroying a ton of ivory in a public spectacle drives up prices, which may become motive for poachers to increase, not decrease their activities. And it decreases the motivation for legit business to remain involved in the process. As we often say around here, my two cents.
In any case, Warther is a good source for legitimate, well cut ivory, and seems committed to continue doing so as long as the government permits him. He offers bone too, and I expect it is as well chosen and well cut as his ivory. His selection certainly is much richer than what I find in the standard luthier supply houses. And he will cut custom sizes in any of the materials he offers. In my case, there was no up charge except for the value of the additional material.
John