Manzer wedge
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Dave Bagwill
- Posts: 5951
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:44 pm
Re: Manzer wedge
Well....I don't know how Linda does it, but I know how I did it. Will that help?
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Dave Bagwill
- Posts: 5951
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:44 pm
Re: Manzer wedge
OK then, I shall tell you.
I did not profile the sides before bending. Left them the full height that they were when I bought them, which was about 5 inches.
Once bent, I glued in the neck and tail blocks.
I had decided that I did not want to reduce the volume of the box so I figured that whatever depth I removed from the bass side I would need to add to the treble side. I used fuzzy logic for this calculation. And by that I mean that there was absolutely NO math involved at all. Just some crazy thoughts in my head, but it seemed to make sense both then and now.
I also thought that I should make the wedge on the back not the soundboard side. Making the soundboard tilted would mean all kinds of screwy things for the neck and neck block, and since I wasnt making those, I modified the back edge of the body.
I made my body .75" thinner on the bass side and .75" thicker on the treble side. It doesnt seem like a lot, not it is pretty significant when you consider that there is a 1.5" change in height from the bass to treble side.
Once you know how big you want to make the wedge, you need to mark the the rim so you can cut it. I used blue tape to connect the dots. The height at the tail block will be the same as your standard guitar. I made an OM with a wedge, and I don't remember the height of the tail block right now, I can assure you I made it to normal specs. So, the center of the tail block is at say, 4", the bass side is 3.25" and the treble side is at 4.75" deep. If you look at the guitar from the tail end, try to imagine how a plane would connect those dots. The highest and lowest points will land in the curves. On the bass side it will be just about in your armpit. On the treble side, just opposite the mark on the bass side. Sort of difficult to understand until you start making marks. I have a radius dish that helped me get the rim shaped perfectly after I cut the wedge shape, but it took a while because I did not initially make my lines go into the curves of the bass and treble bouts enough.
You can definitely do this with a sanding stick as well. I just had the radius dish so I used it.
You need to do the same measuring on the upper bouts. If you have a side template for the model you are making, it will make this a bit easier as far as marking the depths once you have determined the amount of wedge you want to build in.
FYI: I was advised by several builders that I respect that I should build a Fleishman Binding router jig because there was no way, in their opinions, that I would be able to make good, parallel to the sides, binding channels using any other method. Well, I am lazy so I wasn't going to build one, and I didn't want to send any money to a guy who had destroyed the first set of Koa I sent him for bending in order to purchase a Fleishman jig, so I used my trusty KMG IA Router Binding Attachment. Worked like a charm! You will need to take a little more care to get your channels perfect because the angle at which the back plate meets the body is very different from one side to the other versus a traditional, non-wedge guitar, but it will work very well.
I expect questions. This is a difficult concept to explain without pictures. I will elaborate on anything to the best of my ability and answer all questions as best as I can as well. I would post some pic of the guitar, but I can not access Flickr from work. There are pics on this site in the Gallery here:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=73
The third picture shows the guitar from the tail. Try to imagine if the body were deeper on both sides and you took a knife, a BIG knife, perhaps a machete, and sliced away the back edge to make a wedge. That is how you will see where you need to start and end the wedge on each side of the guitar. I really hope this is clear, but I am almost certain it isnt so ask as many questions as you wish.
Tony
I did not profile the sides before bending. Left them the full height that they were when I bought them, which was about 5 inches.
Once bent, I glued in the neck and tail blocks.
I had decided that I did not want to reduce the volume of the box so I figured that whatever depth I removed from the bass side I would need to add to the treble side. I used fuzzy logic for this calculation. And by that I mean that there was absolutely NO math involved at all. Just some crazy thoughts in my head, but it seemed to make sense both then and now.
I also thought that I should make the wedge on the back not the soundboard side. Making the soundboard tilted would mean all kinds of screwy things for the neck and neck block, and since I wasnt making those, I modified the back edge of the body.
I made my body .75" thinner on the bass side and .75" thicker on the treble side. It doesnt seem like a lot, not it is pretty significant when you consider that there is a 1.5" change in height from the bass to treble side.
Once you know how big you want to make the wedge, you need to mark the the rim so you can cut it. I used blue tape to connect the dots. The height at the tail block will be the same as your standard guitar. I made an OM with a wedge, and I don't remember the height of the tail block right now, I can assure you I made it to normal specs. So, the center of the tail block is at say, 4", the bass side is 3.25" and the treble side is at 4.75" deep. If you look at the guitar from the tail end, try to imagine how a plane would connect those dots. The highest and lowest points will land in the curves. On the bass side it will be just about in your armpit. On the treble side, just opposite the mark on the bass side. Sort of difficult to understand until you start making marks. I have a radius dish that helped me get the rim shaped perfectly after I cut the wedge shape, but it took a while because I did not initially make my lines go into the curves of the bass and treble bouts enough.
You can definitely do this with a sanding stick as well. I just had the radius dish so I used it.
You need to do the same measuring on the upper bouts. If you have a side template for the model you are making, it will make this a bit easier as far as marking the depths once you have determined the amount of wedge you want to build in.
FYI: I was advised by several builders that I respect that I should build a Fleishman Binding router jig because there was no way, in their opinions, that I would be able to make good, parallel to the sides, binding channels using any other method. Well, I am lazy so I wasn't going to build one, and I didn't want to send any money to a guy who had destroyed the first set of Koa I sent him for bending in order to purchase a Fleishman jig, so I used my trusty KMG IA Router Binding Attachment. Worked like a charm! You will need to take a little more care to get your channels perfect because the angle at which the back plate meets the body is very different from one side to the other versus a traditional, non-wedge guitar, but it will work very well.
I expect questions. This is a difficult concept to explain without pictures. I will elaborate on anything to the best of my ability and answer all questions as best as I can as well. I would post some pic of the guitar, but I can not access Flickr from work. There are pics on this site in the Gallery here:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=73
The third picture shows the guitar from the tail. Try to imagine if the body were deeper on both sides and you took a knife, a BIG knife, perhaps a machete, and sliced away the back edge to make a wedge. That is how you will see where you need to start and end the wedge on each side of the guitar. I really hope this is clear, but I am almost certain it isnt so ask as many questions as you wish.
Tony
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Dave Bagwill
- Posts: 5951
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:44 pm
Re: Manzer wedge
I have been thinking about this topic now for a bit. It occurred to me that I might be able to make Wedge side profiles from an existing guitar and a laser level. Place the guitar on table raised up just a bit to allow for additional depth on the treble side, and be sure the top is level. Tape your tracing paper to each side following the top. This method can yield tracings for standard sides.
Then, use a laser level and reposition the guitar to create a Manser style "cut", and trace on the paper sides. Untape and I should have a tracing I can use for cutting out sides. My thought was to use the level on one side of the guitar first, then relocate the laser it to the other side (abt 3/4" short on one lower bout and 3/4" deeper on the treble side lower bout).
My question is, do these wedges typically go all the way from tail to the neck block or do they end at some shorter location? I have never seen one in person.
Then, use a laser level and reposition the guitar to create a Manser style "cut", and trace on the paper sides. Untape and I should have a tracing I can use for cutting out sides. My thought was to use the level on one side of the guitar first, then relocate the laser it to the other side (abt 3/4" short on one lower bout and 3/4" deeper on the treble side lower bout).
My question is, do these wedges typically go all the way from tail to the neck block or do they end at some shorter location? I have never seen one in person.
Last edited by Go4aRyd on Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
-dean