Acoustic Guitar Construction

Good Morning to all, sorry it's taken so long to get back but here we are:

The body:
The top is .100; the sides are .075; and the back is .090. The length is 17 15/16";
The lower bout is 11 1/2" W; the waist is 7 5/16"W; and the upper bout is 8 5/8"W The depth or height at the rear tail block is 3 3/4"D; the waist is 3 7/16"D and the upper bout is 3 5/16"D and the heel is 3 1/8"D.

The lower bout back appears to be 25' radius that flattens out at the waist forward; The length very close to the same. The top is 1/16" low from the bridge location to the sound-hole but otherwise is flat.

Again, the sides and back are Brazilian and the top really appears to be Sitka or German Spruce, it's hard to tell...for me anyway...

IT would appear from the string pieces that I removed from the tuners that it was strung with 13's thru 52's and the tension simply pulled the neck off the guitar. As you will see in the pics....there isn't much in the way of glue failure...it simply pulled the wood apart...the neck attachment is interesting, it's a curved teardrop shape that is 2" at the top and 5/8" at the bottom. There was a mortise and tenon joint pretty close to the center that was an extension of the brace that ran from the tail block through the neck block and into the neck. I have no idea how deep. it measures 15/16" high and 1/4" wide and apparently was meant to be a method of stabilizing the neck. The neck sits 3/16" deep into the neck block and is otherwise a "Butt joint" all glued with hot hide glue.
Here are some Pics...notice the M&T at the center of neck joint that I have colored a bit with a pencil so it can be seen...it appears that the neck block is spruce and the tail block is Brazilian RW.

I'm not a very good photog, and I don't want to be too pic heavy so I've tried to pic out those of the most interest...

































I have ALL the pieces...right down to the smallest....it all fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. The frets are not "T" shaped, they are BAR frets. They are somewhat worn...then neck shows that it was really played at EVERY position all the way up the neck. Not sure I want to mess with the neck..the only parts broken are on the extension.
concerned about attaching the neck....make another mortise an tenon...use a bolt with an inset...screws? There is VERY little room inside with that center bar to get at the heel block...only a child could get there hand inside to repair the cracks on the top like you see the other guitar was repaired unless one removes the back...the maple binding is very fragile....not sure one COULD remove the back w/o destroying the binding...but I don't know...not REALLY sure how to do the neck set...the neck is as straight as it can be...no twists or curves...a tiny bit of back-bend and I think that's "Built-in" for string tension...but again...I'm a new-be. All the help an suggestions will be greatly appreciated...if I've Miss-spoken..say so...not thin-skinned! Unless my cat gets PO'ed at me and bites me anyway! Thanks for looking...

Oh...the neck is 12 frets to the body...the nut width is 1.78 and 2.155 at the12Th fret...it is also .07715 thick at the nut and 1.015 at the 9Th fret just prior to the curve up the heel. it has a very deep "V" shape that's very comfortable. it's also a 24.5" scale.

Ray

Good reporting/photo'ing Ray! It's really enjoyable to see this kind of detail. and Gads, I do love the BRW.

Holy Brazilian back!!! That is some absolutely gorgeous wood!

That is quite possibly, the nicest Brazilian back I have ever seen.

Ray, thanks for posting this. I am very surprised at how nice the finish is after 145 years! The pore filling was excellent as well. This is quite the treasure. Especially considering that you have a pic of a family member playing it in 1910! Your family might not have been the original owners, though that is entirely possible, but they certainly have owned it for a long time. It's great that you are going to make it sing again for a future generation to enjoy! I will be watching closely.

Tony

Hey everyone, here's where I am right now, aside from a bout with some breathing problems...somebody got it all wrong, it should start out the other way, 100 and then count down to -0-like a rocket launch, by the time you get to 25 you got vim and vigor, 75 years of knowledge and experience and you can go out with a flash of fire...anyway...
the "Neck set" as I understand from what I've read here is dead on...the only thing I have to contend with is a bit of old hide glue...and so, question number one:
should I remove as much of this as possible before re-glue with Titebond? Should I USE HIDE GLUE?

My next question is this: It is impossible to get you hand inside the guitar because of the Tilton Improvement bar that runs the full length of the guitar and is attached with M&T joint at each end. There isn't any room for any tool between the top and the bar to add an attachment that would go THROUGH the heel block where the most "Meat" is on the neck.
I have given some thought to adding two 1" long dowels: 3/8" Dia. at the top and 1/4" Dia. at the bottom of the neck, leaving plenty of wood to "Pull" on. I really hate to change the outward look of the guitar in anyway the can't be easily reversed or I would put a 1/4" stainless bolt through the bottom of the neck at it's narrowest point thru an ebony strap button but that would require cutting a small flat area out of the heel profile of the neck for the button to rest on.
If I use doweling, should it be wood? If so, what type...what about carbon fiber? Steel? or would it matter...I intend to eventually use steel strings like it was designed for which were .09's to .42 steel on silk as I understand it.
I know from trial and error that with Titebond the wood will usually give before the glue...carbon and/or steel would require epoxy I assume.

Next question: Should I try to drizzle a bit of water thin CA into the cracks on the top? They are almost impossible to see unless the light is just right, the finish is almost entirely undisturbed on the top at the crack, or should I simply stabilize the crack from the inside? I have modified a cam clamp to clear the "X" bracing and devised a way to insert the patch all the way back toward the tail block at it's begining. how far apart should these diamond shaped "Patches" be? SIZE?

Question 3: There are 7 screw holes on the tail end where the tail piece was installed. ALL either stripped out or the wrong size. How can I repair these holes? The tail block is brazilian and the heel block is mahogany as is all the bracing and curfing. I really would like to have the screw holes repaired with a reasonable match to the Brazilian...it would take close to an 1/8" in diameter and 1/2" deep. Indian rosewood? Stain on end grain or simply use small kitchen matches and stain the end grain?

Question 4: Would titebond be OK on the bridge? It's a semi violin at the 2 contact points with the top...again, Hot hide glue was originally used and it pulled some of the fibers with it when it was pulled off by strings that were too large...or just gave way with 145 years of use.

Question 5: the actual "Bridge" insert is steel an looks like bar fret material. The nut is brazilian RW, it wouldn't be too hard to replace them with bone OR ivory from the time period which I already have just about enough of to do both...or should I just leave it alone?

That's all...I may have another question or two but I don't know what it would be...thank you ALL for you patience...I'm just looking for opinion's...I'll weigh the information and make the finial decision...but I KNOW there is a LOT of quality experience out there...please help...
From a evaluation point...because of it's overall condition, this guitar is worth close to $5K retail from what I can find out...I really don't want to screw it up if I can help it...I don't want to sell it in any event...but it was curiosity on my part to look into that...I really want to do the repairs myself...the quotes I received were outrageous and my SS check doesn't go too far today...and I simply don't have the money to throw on the table because they think they have a sucker on the hook...OLD I am...stupid I'm not! (If you talk to the Wife, you MAY get a different answer).. :>)

Thanks again for any opinions you may want to share!

Ray

Please don't take this wrong --- in all likely hood any repairs that you do on this instrument will reduce the value, only a museum curator or a highly skilled repair person such as found at Elderly, Mandolin Brothers, etc. will have the knowledge to know what should or should not be done to an instrument in this condition and of this vintage time frame. There is a wide divide in what is done resuscitating an old guitar to playable condition versus preserving art and antiquity.

RayRay wrote:Next question: Should I try to drizzle a bit of water thin CA into the cracks on the top? They are almost impossible to see unless the light is just right, the finish is almost entirely undisturbed on the top at the crack, or should I simply stabilize the crack from the inside?

Ray

I can not tell you what to do but I would not drizzle CA into the top cracks. You will permanently stain the top; what was once a hard to notice crack would be a very ugly dark line. I have no experience restoring a vintage instrument. I have read though that if any repair you do is reversible you at least have done little harm. So I would not sand off any finish anywhere nor drill or cut. If you are proceeding with the repair I would stick to hide glue and shellac, both can be dealt with by a future restorer. If the crack hardly shows just leave it.

Over all I would leave the cracks and holes, at most putting a bit of wood in the holes on the tail so that the screws will hold again. I would leave the splinters on the heel and neck block, warm them and use hot hide glue to glue the neck back on. I would also use hide glue to repair the fret board and to glue the bridge down. The strings hold on the bridge in any case.