Re: soundboard shopping
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:32 pm
Yeah, Ken, I understand what you're sayin'.
I'm not taking any positions here on what makes a "better soundboard".
Just saying that it's but one of the features that may impact the price.
I'm not gonna state names of different suppliers, but it is my belief that suppliers should be able to explain the differing qualities of their offerings; why one set costs more (or less) than another they may offer.
If that means a series of emails between buyer and seller, or even phone calls, then so be it. After all, the supplier is in business to sell something, so explanation of product/price is part of it.
The tendency for most consumers is to believe that "more expensive" means "better".
I certainly come from the school that says "you get what you pay for", but I also understand that, when doing business, the price is also set by supply, demand, and cost to the business.
Here is a conversation with one supplier.
Buyer: "I'm looking through your website and you show the AAA bearclaw Sitka spruce tops for $15 more than the regular AAA Sitka spruce. Are these subject to the same grading system?"
Seller: "Yes, we grade them the same."
Buyer: "So why so much more for the bearclaw? Is it better?"
Seller: "We have guys on our staff who build. Some love it; others hate it. Nearly always it's mostly a consideration of cosmetics. We take no position on whether it is "better", but only a small percentage of logs will exhibit that figure. It's harder for us to get, that's why it costs more."
Another conversation with a different supplier.
Buyer: "Can you explain the difference between your A grade and AA grade?"
Seller: "While it isn't the absolute best we have to offer, our AA grade is our best value and biggest seller! Our AA grade is where we begin to work with split billets. While this process is done to minimize runout, it is more labor-intensive, so it adds to the cost. Some things that might knock a top down into the A grade are more runout, less stiffness, or maybe some visual defect like pitch marks or solid tiny pin-knots."
Buyer: "I see, so what makes one of your tops AAA grade?"
Seller: "Our AAA tops are our best with the exception of Master grade. Our AAA tops have straight grain, no cosmetic flaws, consistent color, and consistent grain spacing. We also select for stiffness. We pay close attention to nearly perfect quartering (vertical grain) across the width of the plate with this grade. As a result, these soundboards often show good silking. We feel that the lack of runout combined with the nearly perfect vertical grain results in the stiffest plate possible."
Buyer: "You mentioned Master grade. Do you have any of those? I can buy a Master grade from Joe's Soundboard Shop for nearly the same price as your AAA."
Seller: "We currently do not have any Master sets in stock. As to Joe's pricing, we do not know Joe. But please keep in mind that grading systems are not standardized amongst different suppliers. We have ran across several suppliers who sell what they deem Master grade that does not meet the criteria we deem necessary for AAA. Just because the best we have is AAA doesn't mean we are going to call it Master. We might run across one set in 500 that we would grade as Master. If you have your heart set on one of those, we would be happy to place you on the waiting list and contact you if it becomes available."
Buyer: "So what would you recommend to me? My background is fine furniture and cabinetmaking. I am very accomplished in those areas, and have considerable experience with very "particular" clientele. I've never built guitars, but my daughter plays them. She is getting to the point that custom-built instruments from Dad is the way to go."
Seller: "While we would love to sell you the best we have available, our recommendation is not to spend a fortune on your first few projects. Quite often a new builder contacts us, telling us that their belief is do it right the first time or don't do it at all, and it seems to me that you're possibly one of those types of people. Even though you have considerable experience with what makes 'good wood', please keep in mind that guitar construction requires a learning curve. The last thing we would want is for you to overly thin an expensive soundboard and then scramble around with different bracing schemes in an effort to make things work, all the while not even knowing if it will work or not. Basically put, everyone makes mistakes, and we want the more inexperienced to minimize the cost of those errors. In addition, please keep in mind that many of the best instruments in the world have been made with what many consider less-than-ideal wood.
Given your conditions, my recommendation is one of our AA soundboards. They are our biggest seller because they represent our best value. Unless your daughter is the type that has to have a Corvette for her first car, she's gonna be happy simply with the fact that she has a guitar custom built for her by you. Plus, since she's a player, her major concern is probably be making it sound good more so than how perfect the top appears.
As your experience grows, you can upgrade with future builds. Or you may decide that you like the middle grades enough to keep using them.
Either way, it's your decision. My recommendation is based on the fact that I want you to minimize cost of your first few projects, get experience under your belt, and like it enough that you continue to build and come back to us for more. I don't want to sell you what you consider junk, but I also don't want you becoming discouraged with the stress of immediately doing a high-end build.
Ultimately, it's your decision."
True conversations between me and two different suppliers (the best that I can recall anyways).
BTW, these discussions were not from big name suppliers; they were with "smaller" suppliers who basically do everything from harvesting the log to cutting the soundboard. One is a builder; the other simply processes wood for a living and seeks input from builders.
What do y'all think? Honest suppliers with plenty of integrity?
Rob
I'm not taking any positions here on what makes a "better soundboard".
Just saying that it's but one of the features that may impact the price.
I'm not gonna state names of different suppliers, but it is my belief that suppliers should be able to explain the differing qualities of their offerings; why one set costs more (or less) than another they may offer.
If that means a series of emails between buyer and seller, or even phone calls, then so be it. After all, the supplier is in business to sell something, so explanation of product/price is part of it.
The tendency for most consumers is to believe that "more expensive" means "better".
I certainly come from the school that says "you get what you pay for", but I also understand that, when doing business, the price is also set by supply, demand, and cost to the business.
Here is a conversation with one supplier.
Buyer: "I'm looking through your website and you show the AAA bearclaw Sitka spruce tops for $15 more than the regular AAA Sitka spruce. Are these subject to the same grading system?"
Seller: "Yes, we grade them the same."
Buyer: "So why so much more for the bearclaw? Is it better?"
Seller: "We have guys on our staff who build. Some love it; others hate it. Nearly always it's mostly a consideration of cosmetics. We take no position on whether it is "better", but only a small percentage of logs will exhibit that figure. It's harder for us to get, that's why it costs more."
Another conversation with a different supplier.
Buyer: "Can you explain the difference between your A grade and AA grade?"
Seller: "While it isn't the absolute best we have to offer, our AA grade is our best value and biggest seller! Our AA grade is where we begin to work with split billets. While this process is done to minimize runout, it is more labor-intensive, so it adds to the cost. Some things that might knock a top down into the A grade are more runout, less stiffness, or maybe some visual defect like pitch marks or solid tiny pin-knots."
Buyer: "I see, so what makes one of your tops AAA grade?"
Seller: "Our AAA tops are our best with the exception of Master grade. Our AAA tops have straight grain, no cosmetic flaws, consistent color, and consistent grain spacing. We also select for stiffness. We pay close attention to nearly perfect quartering (vertical grain) across the width of the plate with this grade. As a result, these soundboards often show good silking. We feel that the lack of runout combined with the nearly perfect vertical grain results in the stiffest plate possible."
Buyer: "You mentioned Master grade. Do you have any of those? I can buy a Master grade from Joe's Soundboard Shop for nearly the same price as your AAA."
Seller: "We currently do not have any Master sets in stock. As to Joe's pricing, we do not know Joe. But please keep in mind that grading systems are not standardized amongst different suppliers. We have ran across several suppliers who sell what they deem Master grade that does not meet the criteria we deem necessary for AAA. Just because the best we have is AAA doesn't mean we are going to call it Master. We might run across one set in 500 that we would grade as Master. If you have your heart set on one of those, we would be happy to place you on the waiting list and contact you if it becomes available."
Buyer: "So what would you recommend to me? My background is fine furniture and cabinetmaking. I am very accomplished in those areas, and have considerable experience with very "particular" clientele. I've never built guitars, but my daughter plays them. She is getting to the point that custom-built instruments from Dad is the way to go."
Seller: "While we would love to sell you the best we have available, our recommendation is not to spend a fortune on your first few projects. Quite often a new builder contacts us, telling us that their belief is do it right the first time or don't do it at all, and it seems to me that you're possibly one of those types of people. Even though you have considerable experience with what makes 'good wood', please keep in mind that guitar construction requires a learning curve. The last thing we would want is for you to overly thin an expensive soundboard and then scramble around with different bracing schemes in an effort to make things work, all the while not even knowing if it will work or not. Basically put, everyone makes mistakes, and we want the more inexperienced to minimize the cost of those errors. In addition, please keep in mind that many of the best instruments in the world have been made with what many consider less-than-ideal wood.
Given your conditions, my recommendation is one of our AA soundboards. They are our biggest seller because they represent our best value. Unless your daughter is the type that has to have a Corvette for her first car, she's gonna be happy simply with the fact that she has a guitar custom built for her by you. Plus, since she's a player, her major concern is probably be making it sound good more so than how perfect the top appears.
As your experience grows, you can upgrade with future builds. Or you may decide that you like the middle grades enough to keep using them.
Either way, it's your decision. My recommendation is based on the fact that I want you to minimize cost of your first few projects, get experience under your belt, and like it enough that you continue to build and come back to us for more. I don't want to sell you what you consider junk, but I also don't want you becoming discouraged with the stress of immediately doing a high-end build.
Ultimately, it's your decision."
True conversations between me and two different suppliers (the best that I can recall anyways).
BTW, these discussions were not from big name suppliers; they were with "smaller" suppliers who basically do everything from harvesting the log to cutting the soundboard. One is a builder; the other simply processes wood for a living and seeks input from builders.
What do y'all think? Honest suppliers with plenty of integrity?
Rob