Breedlove "Henderson Plate" Brace on Soundboard

[Dave Bagwill]

CM, thanks for the pic, it clears up most of my questions. One remaining question is about the missing finger brace on the 'bass side' - are there in fact 2 finger braces on each side?

Almost the first thing I tell my students - especially if they have some knowledge of luthiery and have read various theories of this-and-that, is that everything about guitar making is contested by someone. And a great deal of the disputes don't matter in the least.

[Herman]

Agreed, including my opinion.
This brings me to the thought making a right handed guitar with a left oriented bracing.
My guess is, it won't matter. (Umph, ..........again another opinion). Ha!
Herman

[Dave Bagwill]

I actually did that once, Herman, and you're right - it made no difference whatsoever that anyone could hear.
Also, Larrivee guitars are symmetrically braced and sound really good. No bass/treble side at all.

[CMStewart]

CM, thanks for the pic, it clears up most of my questions. One remaining question is about the missing finger brace on the 'bass side' - are there in fact 2 finger braces on each side?

Almost the first thing I tell my students - especially if they have some knowledge of luthiery and have read various theories of this-and-that, is that everything about guitar making is contested by someone. And a great deal of the disputes don't matter in the least.

Hey Dave,

You are correct, that on the Breedlove Concert models, they have 1 finger on the bass side, and 2 on the treble.

If you think about it -- all things being equal, removing a fingerbrace anywhere will change things. But if you add a fingerbrace, and then meticulously voice the guitar to sound GREAT (assuming the original without the extra fingerbrace already sounded GREAT), it really doesn't make a difference in tonal quality. It's just that each luthier figured out what works for them and their philosophy to make a great guitar. Not better or worse, just different approaches with their own voice.

I remember watching Dana Bourgeois when teaching made this comment (quote) -- "Asymmetry promotes frequency distribution", and that when he's voicing the top, he's looking for asymmetry. IMO you obviously can make a great sounding guitar with either approach, but they will have sonic differences still (if you have a good ear to hear them). Which to me is the whole fun of lutherie. You can take your own approach, and figure out how to make it sound great, but it will craft it's own unique voice in the process.

[John Parchem]

I like the Herman do not believe that there is a bass/treble side based on how the bridge is strung. But I do think that a bit of asymmetry does change the voice of a guitar and that change can be subjectively better. That is pull out attributes of the voice that a luthier likes; of course attributes that may or may not be liked by others. Some of the great classical builders have symmetrical braces others have an asymmetrical aspect to their bracing. Kasha had a lot of asymmetry; in his analyses he was providing areas of the to that responded differently of different frequencies. Back to my first point pulling the finger from the bass side instead of the treble side would have no quantifiable difference. The change would make the side respond differently, but that change will respond no matter if the guitar is strung as right or left handed.

The bridge is a huge stiff brace. When excited on the plate the bridge rocks side to side. While the sides of the bridge rock out of phase 180° (one side up then the other is down) they still provide the same impetus to each side of the guitar. Having one side of the top stiffer, lighter, looser or heavier will change how the bridge rocks and how the top vibrates. My point is the bridge will respond effectively the same no matter how it is strung. There may be some marginal difference but due to the size, weight and stiffness of the bridge relative to the top that change is in the noise.

[CMStewart]

I like the Herman do not believe that there is a bass/treble side based on how the bridge is strung. But I do think that a bit of asymmetry does change the voice of a guitar and that change can be subjectively better. That is pull out attributes of the voice that a luthier likes; of course attributes that may or may not be liked by others. Some of the great classical builders have symmetrical braces others have an asymmetrical aspect to their bracing. Kasha had a lot of asymmetry; in his analyses he was providing areas of the to that responded differently of different frequencies. Back to my first point pulling the finger from the bass side instead of the treble side would have no quantifiable difference. The change would make the side respond differently, but that change will respond no matter if the guitar is strung as right or left handed.

The bridge is a huge stiff brace. When excited on the plate the bridge rocks side to side. While the sides of the bridge rock out of phase 180° (one side up then the other is down) they still provide the same impetus to each side of the guitar. Having one side of the top stiffer, lighter, looser or heavier will change how the bridge rocks and how the top vibrates. My point is the bridge will respond effectively the same no matter how it is strung. There may be some marginal difference but due to the size, weight and stiffness of the bridge relative to the top that change is in the noise.

I appreciate you and Herman sharing your views. I get what you're saying. I think I just intuitively (based on the way I view frequency waves rippling visually from the string through the wood fibers out into the guitar body) still feel there is a difference from where each string attaches -- whether bass string or treble string. But that's not to say my intuition is correct, it's just my sense about it. I have a hard time viewing guitars from a purely scientific viewpoint, and have a much more artistic and intuitive/experiential view of the whole craft. I mainly just use my ear, and play around to see what feels right to me. But I do see what you both are saying. My guess is somewhere in between is the real truth of the matter

[Herman]

Good point Colby. We all whirl between carft and art. Trying to find out what works and have fun. That is the main goal here.
Herman