Scientific study of back woods from JASA

[Dave Bagwill]

Very encouraging, Peter! Thanks for that.

[Herman]

This is an expirienced based experiment. In the scientific world it is one of the lowest qualified method of science.
So in words of normal people it means: this outcome is not of very great value.

The trouble here is, what do the partipicient use to qualify these guitars? Volume? Balance? Treble? Low? All is very subjective. And it all could be different with subsequent guitars in the test.

Apart from that, IMO, I am confinced that you can make a great guitar with any decent back/side hardwood.
FWIW: one of my best guitars is made with Sapele. 18 bucks for a b/s.
Herman

[Dave Bagwill]

Yeah, and I made one out of the lowly quartered Red Oak that turned out very well also.

I was impressed with the control methods they used - it wasn't just the subjective factor. There was some science.

And it came out pretty much what I think we have all experienced - the back and sides, as long as they are worked appropriately, will not hinder the movement of the top.

Some world-class builders use laminated backs as well. Almost all builders of gypsy-style guitars who copy the Selmer guitars use laminates. James Oberg, a classical builder, has used a laminated back of 5 layers on his sought-after instruments.

I've corresponded with Michael Collins, a luthier known for his meticulous gypsy guitars, who does the laminate thing as well. He says that, when braced, the laminates take on the character of a plate.

Nonetheless, for looks, those exotic woods are hard to beat.

[John Link]

I hope this post does not "hijack" the discussion. What I intend to do is expand the discussion of tone woods to include those that are used for the top, where the sides and back are held constant.

Back in 2016 Ervin Somogyi built three guitars, each as identical to the other two as much as he was able, with exception of the top wood: Sitka spruce; European spruce, and cedar. Michael Chapdelaine posted a video on YouTube that features "California Dreamin'" divided into thirds, with each third played by himself on one of the three guitars. The actual playing begins at 2:13. Before that is a discussion of the project itself by Ervin. No science, though.

https://youtu.be/9blA1_VoMLs

Michael emailed me that he preferred the Sitka and that, in fact, almost all the guitars that he likes the most have Sitka tops. Myself I had a slight preference for the Sitka, but only after I bought the CD and listened to it very, very carefully on my over built stereo system. My conclusion about all the wood we are discussing is that it makes very little difference as long as the wood choices are limited to those that are reasonably consistent with the demands of a steel stringed guitar AND the basic design is held constant AND the maker is competent in executing it. Remember, Benedetto made an archtop with back, sides, and top all made from knotty lumber he purchased at Home Depot, so "reasonably consistent" covers a wide range of choices. But I still suspect the assumption on the part of the player regarding the "quality" of the instrument has an effect on the playing.

[Dave Bagwill]

Very interesting.

[peter havriluk]

And folks pay dearly for looks, not performance. And spend vast amounts of time justifying the 'necessity'.