Why would you need to voice or tap tune?

[Dave Bagwill]

KenC - I see what you're saying.
I think most players can 'earticulate' between a good sounding and a bad sounding guitar, and some degrees in between. I think there must be a degree of working the wood where it is doing its job most efficiently - for that particular combination of woods. That's what I'm aiming for - nothing hindering the fullest expression of the woods, other than my sloppy workmanship. :-) I'm going to try the Lowden 'dolphin' bracing, with what specs I can gather, but still it is THIS wood in my shop that I must get the best out of if I hope to get halfway to a Lowden.
So it's not that I disagree, it's just that given the right specs and types of wood, it seems there must be some workmanship to deal with the very specific situation in front of me on the bench.
Am I over thinking?

[ken cierp]

I'll get into the Siminoff ideas latter - I believe I published this before - I 've found that the sound-board blank material can start out very responsive as two halves, some times improving after joining. Thinning the blank can bring about a drastic change, I'd say about 7-8% fallout when thinned down to about .120" -- on rare occassion cutting out the sound-hole results in an unacceptable tap tone. To me after thinning, about 1/2" cross grain deflection is acceptable. This is my "master" stiffness test.

On a guitar that is going to have light strings I use 1/4" braces, all others 5/16". After gluing on and shaving all the braces I do a little more tapping always at the bridge location. If the braced sound-board is not as lively as when it was bare, I shave off material a little at a time from the long X legs and tone bars. I am satisfying my ear -- nothing more. Now I do the very same thing after the top is glued to the rim -- of course the top is glued on before the back which "to me " is the only logical order for this very reason, which is an oppurtunity to further tweak the top.

I usually wait several days before gluing on the back leaving myself some time to rap on the sound-baord and give a listen for resonance and sustain. BTW I ask my wife what she thinks as well --- not very scientific but what's pleasing our ears seems to please the ears of others in the long term.

[Dave Bagwill]

That's a good logical process.

[TonyinNYC]

This is an interesting thread. I wish I had something to add but it's all been covered pretty well.
I have read Somogyi's books and Siminof as well. Cumpiano is a given. My guitars have all turned out well and the owners have all said they ripped me off and I should have charged double. But how did I do it? I dunno. Tapping, listening, flexing, tapping some more? That's what I do but I can't say I know what I'm listening for exactly. Just a good "BONGGGGGGGG" and then I am done "voicing". If the top sounds dead, I thin it more. Once braced, I thin the braces till I am happy with the bong sound.
See? Nothing to add.

[Ken Hundley]

I will rarely disagree with anything I read in THIS forum. I find we all express honest, passionate, though in may cases differentiating opinions, which is what a forum is supposed to do. In this hobby/profession, we all have separate priories and goals, and I understand at least that much, if not those specific goals when mentioned. I think one of the strongest things mentioned in this forum mentioned by KenC if not others (including me) is that it is so hard to emulate the sound of a given model or specific actual guitar when you take its age, condition, and lifetime experience into effect. Each of those elements has a huge cumulative effect on a guitar that are not necessarily apparent as time goes on.

Lets say you build a guitar that EXACTLY typifies the sound you have been searching for over the last 25 years! FANTASTIC! A truly incredible achievement......will it sound like that next year? I can almost guarantee it wont. My best sounding keeps getting better (to my ears), but how does it sound compared to when it was first strung up? Is it as good? Has it gone beyond or below my original expectations? Can I build a fresh new one to compare? Maybe, prolly not. What will that one sound like 7 years down the road? 25 years?

My thought (which is admittedly muddled by Vodka, Layer Cake Wine, and some good scotch tonite) is not to over analyze, but to practice some good building techniques that have been excellently taught here, be satisfied from what you hear or feel throughout the appropriate building stages (or make another pass at it), and getterdone. It's been proven that taking the same woods from the same trees, the same billets, with the same specs the same in each and every way possible yield two completely different guitars....there's no way that those of us who produce 2 or 3, or even 10 or 20 guitars a year can replicate a "sound". We can come close, capture certain characteristics we can somehow communicate between buyer and builder, and we may even very well replicate a look in bling and dimensions, but each guitar will be its own animal. And while you may target a sound you hope to achieve when it is strung up, it will evolve as the guitar ages, and will you still be satisfied compared to your original expectations? I guess I just feel that, while we love and want to know so much about what we do here, trying to get so specific is a perfect way to set ourselves up for disappointment, and I hate to see any of you whom I have enjoyed for so long (or for not so long) fall into that trap. 'Kay, the ice is diluting my last scotch for the evening, gonna go out and run some power tools.

[Woodyok]

Hi guys,
Well I hope I don't cause too many ripples with this post. I know there are good reasons for tap tuning and voicing. For me I only tap for tone at one time during the building process. After the top has been glued to the sides, I get my chromatic tuner and tap around the top looking for some where between a F# and G. I read during my research stage that this was a good tone to look for. Maybe Frank Fords site I just don't remember (short term memory is starting to go LOL).

Because I'm a player, I was looking for a guitar that sounded good ( obviously subjective) that I could use for gigs. I feel like I have accomplished that goal three times and working on a fourth. My musician friends all say "hey this guitar sounds good, but the setup is not the way I like it. Each guitar I have made, sounds different but good. Good enough that I use them for all my gigs.
I might be able to hear the differences while adjusting the tap tone, but I don't think I would know if it was better or worse, just different.

[ken cierp]

I do some adjusting after the sound-board is attached to the rim (the main reason for the gluing on the top rather than the back first) I've found that at times that the resonace and sustain of the SB is not as good as when the plate was free standing. So I shave off a bit of material form the X and tone bars. I push around to free up points where there is little or no flex -- it my belief the lower bout of top is a diaphragm and should have freedom of movment to effectively pump air.