Acoustic Guitar Construction

I was going to suggest going right to the tail block earlier on. It makes a lot more since structurally. I hesitated then to avoid confusing the post. Boy those are massive CF rods. I see the builder has cf on the ladder braces as well. I agree with Ken for sustain as the heel block will not be deflecting, eating up energy. I wonder how this guitar sounds.

Hmmm...if the point is to have the cf rods take up some of the stress from the headblock and therefore on the top as well, why would a neck-thru type of thing do anything more than the short rods that direct that stress to the sides?
As long as the force is directed to a stable rim, either on the sides or at the tail block?

Remember, the goal for me is the thinking about the potential of a freer upper bout; the elevated fretboard is one way to do that, and it's pretty common practice though of course the factories don't do it.
Thanks

This is somewhat beside the point of the vibrating upper bout, but not entirely. Putting CF on the top of every brace on both plates (they do not look like balsa either) is the rough equivalent of adding height to every brace. And it looks like CF on the bridge pad too. You could get into a subtle, semi-invisible overbuilding before you know it. The result would be sustain of a tight sort, not the relaxed, woody sustain that is characteristic of the acoustic instruments that most place in high value. On the other hand, you would have a very strong, durable instrument - consistent with few warranty issues. No?

What I am also thinking is overbuilding everywhere would ultimately reduce the upper bout response you are seeking because it strengthens everything. At some point, to get responsiveness, we have to weaken structures without letting the instrument break, become overdriven, or produce chaotically distributed areas of vibration that cancel out each other. Intuitively speaking, there seems to be too much CF in the pictured box. It might impress customers as being the "next great technology", but putting it at the top of already stiff material seems like overkill, though all the little lines running around are appealing to look at, and work to transition to the heavy rods. What I can't tell at all is how much is placed on the braces. Could be so little that it doesn't matter as much as I am suspecting.

I guess what I am getting at is to raise caution about applying CF to wood braces just because one can. Whether one voices a plate by reducing brace strength or simply builds light in the first place, it seems to me a lot of CF might mount up faster than one supposes just by looking at it. They are, after all, just small lines. The Smallman approach uses even more CF, to be sure, but they are much closer to the top and the spacers are balsa, not normal wood, and his tops are exceptionally thin in the first place.

The Oscar Schmidt I just acquired has just three normal LB wood braces on the top. Two are on either side of the sound hole where things are - as is typical of all gits - rather dead ... the area you are trying to activate. The third is below the bridge on the lower bout. Thus, the money area is lightly braced - no angulation either. There is a bridge pad, of course, and someone added a another tongue brace under the finger board, making that area that much stiffer. Whatever, it is as loud as two 40 year old Guild F-50 17 inch jumbos I have.

All the braces on the top in this last picture would facilitate short amplitude movement in the top. There is not much room left for cross wise movements of moderately large surfaces, which (in theory) bring out mid-range. The decoupling along the side of the top might well help the bass by encouraging the top to move as a whole, which would be the longest amplitude movement, the one that many (including Gore and Gilet) think supports volume as well.

But enough of theory. The real proof of what happens would be in the final sound. Do you have a clip of what this instrument, once finished, sounds like?

To make clear: I'm not going to copy that instrument - nor use the cf all over the place :-) Just trying to nail down the idea of the upper bout freedom and whether it's worth going for.

There may be a youtube vid of that and other turner guitars, but they will all sound good - nobody posts a bad clip, know what I mean?

Your points are well taken.

Hey Dave, If by "bad" you mean really bad, I agree. However, I have saved a fairly large collection of You Tube guitar clips and I can hear many differences. There was a music store with several early 40's D-18s that succeeds in demonstrating any instrument can be overdriven by a heavy - though skilled - right hand. When I listen to blues played on LB compared to X-braced a general pattern emerges that the LB sound is "bluesier". Likewise Somogyi gits sound "woodier" than vintage Martins. And old Gibsons define a sound that is theirs alone.

But I understand your point and one Ken has made: with very little effort, sound can be made to sound however you want it to sound, assuming the basic recording is free of noise. You can even get rid of noise if you have the right software. As in, the Information Highway is not rigorously patrolled.

Found some Rick Turner stuff on You Tube. The inspiration for all the CF, according to Turner, was to build a guitar you could throw off the back of a snowmobile without damage. One of the comments made by an owner touts a picture of Turner standing on the soundboard of the guitar. I have no doubt the copious use of CF leads to a strong instrument. One of the first examples, if not the actual first, was taken on an Antarctica expedition, where it performed flawlessly in zero humidity conditions, according to the owner. (A commentor who claimed to have worked there too said "normal" instruments without all the reinforcing fared equally well.) If you advance to 2:20 in the clip cited below you can hear about 30 seconds from one of the gits heavily reinforced with CF. If you need or want a guitar that emphasizes treble, it would be a good one to consider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up9HMXOr8LA#t=238

I can't tell you how many people are after me to build a guitar that can be tossed off the back of a snowmobile!!
Wait...yes I can...zero.