How much do x-brace inlets really matter?

[Dave Bagwill]

In fact that is why I cut the kerfing out where the brace ends will be, then glue on the top, then glue on a fitted piece of kerfing that sits right there on the brace end. That way I KNOW that sucker is down.

[ken cierp]

Dave I sent an email off to John Greven asking the following -- For those that don't know him -- John is one of the premier restorers and vintage replica makers in the world. Google Greven Guitars!

Hi John,
Gotta question for you -- the issue is -- is it best or is there an advantage structurally, long term to have the long legs of the X braces and the perimeter ends of the tone/bass bars inlet into the kerfing versus shaving them thin as paper where they meet the kerfing. And in your experience did you see untucked ends peel away from the sound-board more frequently then the inlet end style?

Ken
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Ken;
The primary consideration for tucking the braces, albeit the tone bars and X brace or the braces into the liners is to prevent them from popping loose in the event of a hard blow to the top. Remember that Martin was concerned about warranty repairs eating up their profits and redesigned their top bracing to prevent warranty work. Tonally it makes sense to keep the top as loose as reasonably possible with minimal bracing and minimally tight edges with feathered rather than tucked into liner bracing. BUT from a long term perspective, structure won out over tone. If you are are O.k. with taking the chance of a very light bracing structure and don't mind the occasional return for repair, I would always vote for tone over structure. I figure, I can retop if necessary, worst case scenario, but I want to get the best and biggest sound up front and hope for the best longer term. I rarely have an issue with very slim brace tails going into the liners. If it is a good, strong top, let the top do most of the structural work load. Think of the bracing as an assist rather than the primary resistance to top rotation and string pressure.
John



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[Dave Bagwill]

And from Mike Doolin, responding to my query about peeling of braces if ones guitar is slammed into an abutment:

"Hey Dave,

I do inlet my X braces at the sides, and I cut the kerf away just enough for a tight fit. My X is 1/8" high at the back and about 1/4" high at the front, and it's really easy to notch away the kerf to fit. Incidentally, I intentionally cut the X about 1/16" short at every end so it doesn't butt right up against the sides. That way, there's a little room for expansion and contraction with humidity changes; otherwise, there's a possibility of the X pushing the binding out if the guitar gets really dry.

On the other hand, I don't think "peeling" is much of a real threat. If you're going to slam your guitar into an abutment, something is going to break anyway. But under reasonable treatment, properly glued braces don't come loose. At least, I've never had a brace come loose.

"Slam your guitar into an abutment", that's a good one! We're building musical instruments here, not battering rams!"

[TonyinNYC]

I emailed myself with the same question. Here is my response:

Tony,
With your dashing good looks, and infinite wisdom, do you see any positive or negative aspects to not inletting the x-brace into the lining? There are people, smart people Tony, not as smart as you obviously, but very smart nevertheless, who would like to know your ridiculously wise thoughts. If the braces are not inlet, would a bump cause the braces to pop loose from the top?
Thanks in advance for your wise and witty response(possibly peppered with sarcasm, possibly not)
Tony

The reply I received:

Dear Tony,

I can tell you are smart and very handsome. Your question is a very good one, you are clearly hanging with a smart crowd. Or stalking them. Whatever. Anyway, lets assume you build guitars with very tight fitting joints. We all know that a glue joint, if properly executed, is stronger than the wood itself, right? Of course I am right. If that is the case, I would think that any bump that is hard enough to dislodge a brace, would also be hard enough to put a nice little hole in the sound board. But, and this is a big but, not Oprah big, but pretty big, if your joinery is lousy, there is a chance you could knock the brace loose and not crack the sound board. This could be a blessing in disguise because if the joints were that poor to begin with, the guitar probably did not sound that good. Go Pete Townsend on that puppy and start anew. Or, just re-top it. Either way. If you want to know what I do, you will have to pay the toll which currently stands at 15 cents, a nail, and the shell of a great, great, great grandfather snail.
Thanks for your well thought out and intelligent question.
Regards,

Tony

[ken cierp]

Tony -- kind of early to be drinking alcoholic beverages - yes?

[TonyinNYC]

Probably Ken. I'm so ashamed.







Just kidding. I rarely ever drink before noon...unless I feel like drinking before noon.

[Dave Bagwill]

If a fella decides to feather out his braces instead of notching/inletting, what other method(s) would he be likely to use to locate the top for gluing? The UTB is good if notched, and a pin or two into the headblock works, but around the tailblock area?