Padauk J-185 w/Piano Soundboard Top

[TonyinNYC]

In regards to comments about runout in the spruce, there really is no way to control that if you consider the limitations on the process mentioned above. Those who make piano soundboards (we make them in the shop where I work) pay NO attention to the way the grain pattern on one board matches the one next to it. Therefore, you have to be content with the fact that a top made from a piano soundboard is going to have grain patterns that shift drastically every 4" or so. Luck and necessity drive the process much more than aesthetic considerations. It is fortunate just to get a piece of wood large enough to make a J-185 soundboard, let alone one that might look good in the process.

Since I don't actually know anything about piano soundboards, I should have kept my mouth shut! I originally assumed that you remove the pieces of the sound board one at a time so you would end up with multiple pieces of wood which can then be cut into thin pieces, joined, and made into a guitar sound board. However, I think I see now that you are removing the entire sound board from the piano in one piece and then cutting it into guitar sized chunks which you then resaw into thin sound boards, is that right? If my second scenario is the more accurate one, than yes, you have zero control over how the individual boards were glued up originally. Nevertheless, if I were offered one of these to build with, I would do it for two reasons:
1) recycling old, valuable spruce is good for everyone
2) the sound board has a killer history.

The vendor I buy all of my spruce from recovers blow down trees and literally carries the wood out of the forest on his back so as to have as little impact on the environment as possible. He also salvages trees that were cut down 60 or more years ago and were used to make logging bridges so companies could bring in equipment to cut and haul out felled trees. Those particular "bridge stringer" spruce trees are no better in quality than a tree blown down in a storm, but they have a cool back story that people seem to react to. A piano sound board is every bit as cool, if not cooler, than having your guitar built out of an old logging bridge stringer.

Also, I apologize if my run out comment was taken as offensive. That was never my intention. You have built a great looking guitar and my dopey comment was not meant to detract from that fact.

[Tom OBrien]

Note: I Have taken no offense whatsoever to anyone's comments. Your comments have been entirely logical given your experience with guitar tops. Your comments and assistance has been very much appreciated.

I took the Padauk J-185 to Chicago Music Exchange to do a comparison test. My expectations were that the Gibsons would sound a lot like my guitar, but outclass it in regards to fit and finish.

The results were that the two Gibsons, an anniversary edition and an artist edition, each costing over $5,000, were completely outclassed by the Padauk J-185 when it came to sound. To take personal bias out of the equation, I had one of the sales people take a listen. He agreed. A customer observing from a distance said the Gibsons sounded like mine with a pillow stuffed inside.

The other side of the coin, however, was that the Gibsons most definitely made my guitar look like it had come from the bush leagues. It wasn't just the top, but also the neck. I was so embarrassed that I took my guitar back to the shop and I'm reshaping the neck so that it no longer feels like an axe handle.

The reshaping went well yesterday and now I need to refinish the neck. I'm probably going to go with a satin black, which will be easier to accomplish than trying to match up shaded areas with ones that have been sanded through

[Dave Bagwill]

Very interesting Tom. Sounds like something you can really be proud of.

[Kevin in California]

I have had similar experiences taking my guitars to Guitar Center. It amazes me.
I figure my finishes will equal the factories finishes around my 10,000th build.
:>)

Kevin

[TonyinNYC]

Fit and finish are the toughest things to get right. I still have major pore filling issues. I can never seem to get all of the pores filled, and even when I think they are, a few coats of lacquer, and the pores slap me right in the face. Tiny, almost invisible to the naked eye, gaps become glaring errors when they are all shiny with lacquer. I need to take much more time to get my surfaces level and my pores and gaps all filled completely before I begin to lacquer.
My cousin owns an all koa, wedge OM I built for him and delivered in May of 2011. He took it to have new strings put on (I can not believe people actually pay for this service). The store he took it to was Mandolin Brothers on Staten Island. The owner looked at the guitar and asked where it came from. He played it, examined it, and said of all of the amateur luthier built guitars he had ever seen, mine had the best fit and finish. He also said he could tell it was not a factory guitar because the finish had some pores showing. But, he then said the fit and finish were 90% as good as any factory finish. I need to fill in that last 10%. Oh, and he loved the sound my guitar made. Said it was about the nicest sounding, all Koa guitar he had ever played. So I have that going for me.
For those of you who don't know Mandolin Brothers, they are the Elderly or Gruhn's of NY. Lots of old guitars for sale, as well as new ones. The wiki article on them says it better than I can:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandolin_Brothers

High praise for my guitar.

Anyway, my point is that finishing is hard. Very hard. With nitro, even after a year, the finish is still shrinking and new little pits will appear that were not there when you built the guitar. The finish on my #1 was like glass when I strung it up. Three years later, the finish on the sound board is like a washboard. It is not terrible, but you can see the grain of the wood showing through. Oh well. I guess we just have to keep trying to improve our finishes! At least I do!
You built a winner as far as sound goes Tom. And that, my friend, is the most important thing to get right. Congrats!

[Kevin in California]

Tony, I see the same thing happening on my guitars with nitro. I am wondering if I just need to put more on to begin with so when it shrinks, it is still okay. Or maybe shellac / french polish would be a better alternative?

Kevin

[John Parchem]

Congratulations, what a fun experience to get a great sounding instrument.