Butt joint for nylon string guitar

[Kevin in California]

Ahhh, two things that I have been wondering/contemplating. I was planning on building the neck for my crossover the same way as I have for the steel string guitars...why not? Use the truss rod to put a little tiny bit of relief in and should be good to go. I will certainly radius the fretboard as I'm use to playing on that surface. And then, I have also wondered, why not just use standard tuners with the nylon strings...why not? Should work unless the nylon wrapped around a metal post somehow produces a different sound. I remember the first guitar I got, someone gave me, it was a small body steel string guitar with solid headstock/tuners, and it had nylon strings on it. I played it that way for awhile and then put steel strings on it.

So Ken, other than tradition, you don't think there would be a sound difference using standard post tuners? I suppose the slot head headstock might be lighter in weight???

Kevin

[ken cierp]

I too (years ago -- about 55!) had a parlor size steel string guitar that I strung up with nylon string. Tuners worked fine now that I think about it even though one of my teachers said I was not supposed to do that -- with no explaination that I can recall. If you read stuff from Steve Klien, adding weight to the headstock can dramatically improve the sound of any guitar since in his view the added weight dampens the "tuning fork" effect thus more energy is actually converted to sound we hear. Note I am just repeating -- but it does make sense to me. Maybe he said improves "sustain" of any guitar -- I have a good memory but its short!

[Robert Hosmer]

OK, so we're trying to determine how much we can veer away from "traditional construction methods".
I suppose the issue centers around what we can get away with while still using nylon strings?
Some concerns are aesthetics, sound quality, and playability.
From reading the posts in this thread, here are the interpretations I have formed thus far, and I would like to know if I'm on the right track. Plus, it leads to more questions.

1. Type of neck joint does not matter? Whatever method with which the builder is most familiar/comfortable?
To many, cutting slots in a block may seem less complicated than making a precisely cut M/T, and certainly less complicated than a dovetail.
But other details, such as installing the binding, trimming of sides, etc. require more detailed approach when using the Spanish method. Couple that with the details concerning the fingerboard, and it may make it more complicated overall?
Using the less permanent methods (mortise/tenon, etc.), the neck is more easily reset if that is ever needed. The installation of sides and binding seems less complicated, but would not the fingerboard still need to be tapered to accomodate the greater arch of the vibrating nylon strings?
So type of joint does not matter, nor does neck construction itself (truss rod, carbon fiber reinforcement, etc.)? The largest difference is how we approach setup?

2. Tuners do not seem to matter. Simply an aesthetics issue?

3. Tension differences between nylon and steel, again. Fan bracing works best with nylon, x-bracing for steel. I don't want to delve into it too deep, but suffice to say that nylon can work with x-bracing, just a matter of not being "optimum"?

4. What about the differences in soundhole size? Is this again what has been determined to be optimum for a given bracing system in relation to string tension?
What about bridge design?
I suppose that plate thickness (rigidity) and bracing in conjunction with a given string tension have more to do with it than anything else?

5. I like the comment on the heavier headstock. How to best approach it? Lots of gold inlay? I'm a poor boy, so lead is gonna have to do! (My attempt at humor.)

Thanks for the good thread, guys. If anyone has answers to my questions, please remember I still consider myself a newbie.

Rob

[ken cierp]

Yeah we are veering here and getting off topic which is the neck joint.

I may move parts of this thread -- it would better to ask about the other components or finished assmbly under a more appropriate topics -- remember this forum is a dynamic reference resource.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48


So Bob if you would please part out your questions to the other topic areas. Thank you

As for the Dove Tail vs MT neck joint which is better -- I've chosing to not allow that "dead horse debate" at this forum

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13

-- what we need to share is how we go about processing either of those or other joint concepts.