The compensated nut -- is it worth the effort?

[Dave Bagwill]

I asked Dana Bourgeois about compensation. Here is his reply:

Hi Dave,

Ok, here is what Dana has to say. Thanks for thinking of us.

"We compensate at the nut by shortening the end of the fretboard by .020". About 20 years ago Bob Taylor clued me into the possible benefits of doing this so I tried it out. I then made an adjustment to the compensated saddle that I was already using, and decided that the result gave me better "middle of the road" intonation than just the compensated saddle.

I'm not entirely sure why this works. I know that logrhythmically spaced frets produce, in theory, equal temperament tuning, and that equal temperament tuning favors certain intervals over others. So all guitars start out with built-in intonation problems. Add to that the phenomena that different diameters of strings go sharp at different rates when stretched in the act of fretting, and the resulting effects of string selection and setup preferences, and guitars are just a big can worms. Even electric guitars, with infinitely adjustable saddles, can be intonated using more than one approach, hence the popularity of Buzz Feiten system among some players.

As a maker, all one can do is select a system of compensation that sounds good to the ear. This is a purely aesthetic decision. I have been fortunate to receive a few compliments from good players about the sweetness of my guitars' intonation, my favorite coming from Doc Watson. I do sometimes hear complaints, but these are usually from players who favor extreme setup preferences. Dana Bourgeois"

[Tim Benware]

Here's a little article that will make one wonder if there is value in messing with a compensated nut -- the hearing test is fun and the last paragraph is really telling:

http://www.aqdi.com/tuner.htm

I had to really struggle to notice the difference and it sounded more like an intensity or volume change than a pitch change to me. I didn't think my ear was that bad (and who knows maybe it wasn't when I was younger)!

[Timothy R]

Hello all,

I am new to this list. I started a thread on the kit guitar forum recently on this same topic.

For me, the compensated nut makes a difference, not just when trying to hear it but also while playing. Here is my test and I would be interested in knowing whether others notice the same thing. I have a 1 year old Taylor GC4 in mint condition, but it does not have nut compensation. I tune the open strings with a Snark tuner as precisely as I can (I’ve done this several time with the same results). If I then play a bar chord on the 5th or 7th fret, it sounds great and the Snark confirms that all the notes are right. But if I play open chords, here are the main distortions I hear, and that appear to be confirmed by the Snark:

1) open D chord: The F# note on the second fret, first string, is sharp relative to the open D, 4th string bass note.

2) open A chord: The C# note on the second fret, second string, is sharp relative to the open A, 5th string bass note.

3) open E chord: Among other things, the G# on the third string, first fret is sharp relative to the open E, 6th string bass note.

It is interesting that those are all “sharp sharp” notes, but I guess that’s just coincidence.

What I am hearing in all of those cases is consistent with what would be expected due to fretting distortion. If I fret extra hard, the symptoms worsen. To me these distortions are large enough to be bothersome, even if I take care to fret gingerly, which I cannot always do anyway for a fast chord change. If I detune the first three strings slightly, the paired notes mentioned above all sound better. Of course, the guitar is then out of tune in other respects.

I have always heard these distortions on different guitars, long before I ever heard of nut compensation, and I am sure it is not just in my imagination. What’s bothersome to me may not be bothersome to others, of course. But, I think the physical phenomenon is real.

On my 000 kit guitar I have been able to eliminate all of these distortions using temporary plastic shims in front of the nut (shims of differing widths for different strings). For open chords, the intonation on that guitar is now far better than on my Taylor.

Finally, Ken, I don’t think the hearing test you posted is quite the right way to test pitch sensitivity for guitar. The main issue with guitar is intonation of simultaneous notes, not sequential ones. Also, pure sine wave tones may not yield the same hearing results as do plucked guitar strings, but I don’t know about that.

Tim

[ken cierp]

Dave -- so everyone, it seems agrees "if you are looking for trouble you'll find it" from a business stand point I can see the quick and dirty method of shaving off a few .000" -- a zero cost selling point. On the other hand who is willing to pay for all the work Tim put into his tests and corrections? My guess, at the very least $50-$100 in skilled labor. Notice that the title of the thread "is it worth the effort"? It would cost the major manufacturers pennies to add a generic compensated nut -- but none do. In my view you have to ask yourself the question "would Chet Atkins, Rick Ruskin, Alex Degrassi etc. have one more fan or sell one more recording if their guitars had a compensated nut" -- I believe the answer is no. I am thinking that while we can bench or static test to detect unpleasant pitch anomalies -- during performance the human hearing (on average) is simply not sophisticated enough to make distinctions. Plus our brains tend to fill in the voids and our perceptions and anticipations -- sight and sound tend to become an "at the moment reality"

I am going to contact Bob Taylor and see if they indeed use a shortened finger-board.

Oh! -- do not overlook the importance of getting the string height at the nut as low as possible this is key to minimizing pitch distortion when pressing on the first few frets. A definite check in the plus column for the "zero fret" -- maybe that would be a good thread?

[Tim Benware]

Oh! -- do not overlook the importance of getting the string height at the nut as low as possible this is key to minimizing pitch distortion when press on the first few frets. A definite check in the plus column for the "zero fret" -- maybe that would be a good thread?

I think that is the key. I have my height very low over the 1st and when I tested the strings Tim mentioned they were in tune with the open. Further down the neck there was some slight sharpness going on but not over the tolerance (5 cents) that the ear can distinguish.

Ken, don't you think with a good setup you can get the nut as close as a zero fret?

[ken cierp]

Yes -- with a little work string height can be very accurate with a nut alone -- the "zero fret" is an option, seems like maybe less work - but requires design changes. Personally I am not crazy about the way they look.

[Tim Benware]

I agree, I don't like the look either. I just replaced one on a 70's Harmony Mandolin, worked good though. Got a nice low action.