1899 O-21 Sound real or a bit processed?

[Herman]

Hi guys,
My next customer sent me this for the sound target he wants for the OO-28 to build.
It rings real extraordinary for such a little guitar, but to me it sounds like it had a bit of help with reverb and a bit of Eq to the bass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1FPQk1 ... pfsqZU2gsQ

What do you think?
Herman

[Dave Bagwill]

If it was 'helped out' a bit, it was pretty subtle.

[ken cierp]

Its my understanding that when trying for the pure tone of a guitar the microphone should be at the fret board level 12th fret. Sounds good, but I think there's electronic help -- zero finger noise?

[John Link]

Hi there Herman.

You may have a tiger by the tail with this request. You might remind the client that the guitar sounded new in 1899, not the way it sounds now. Some might say try a torrified soundboard - myself I'm a little skeptical of all that stuff. Seems like we build new guitars as best they can be built, and that's that. In any case, the target sound is from an instrument that is over 100 years old.

Also, being built in 1899, it was built light. I assume the strings are silk and steel, not full-bore steel. Robbie O'Brien has a video of a 1890 Martin 0-27 he restored and says the soundboard measured out at less than 2 mm (slightly over 1/16 inch). Back and sides even thinner. Is your customer prepared to deal with an instrument that delicate?

When O'Brien takes off the back and shows the braces, they look incredibly light, and in no way "compensate" for the thinness of the top. As expected, some of them are broken and the top has cracks, some of which are a little strange. Your customer better be ready for such inevitabilities as the instrument ages. (What little O'Brien shows about the restoration is quite fascinating, especially how he gets the back off without disturbing [much] the ivory binding.)

What also interests me is how much the 1890 guitar sounds like the 1899. Perhaps they both used reverb and EQ for their recordings, hard to tell. But most of that sound is probably due to the extreme lightness of the build. Light, then lighter, then lighter still is the direction I would go if I was attempting to get close to that sound. It should be an interesting adventure.

edit: O'Brien does get some fingering noise in his recording.

[John Parchem]

No idea on the recording, I do know one thing that is hard to replicate is the player. The player has a lot of control with ultimate sound.

I have found that the 0's have a rich sound with more volume and bass than I originally expected. The braces I saw in Robbie's video did not look that far off from what I do. I would consider talking with the client to get a verbal description of what attributes in the sound they like. Everyone hear different things. I did find it interesting to hear that they were originally built for nylon. But he strung it up with steel.

[John Link]

John, remember it was silk and steel in O'Brien's case. Don't know for sure with the 1899 O-21. But I think pure steel would break it eventually, as O'Brien said had happened to the O-27.

I agree about ultimate sound. Michael Chapdelaine makes this discontinued Yamaha LL-500 sound very nice.

[Dave Bagwill]

There are some excellent low-tension strings by Thomastic-Infeld that are made for older more delicate instruments. They have a wonderful tonal quality to them, are expensive, and last about 2 weeks, but it's a great 2 weeks. :-)

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