Plastic Bindings on antique guitars
Re: Plastic Bindings on antique guitars
Still waiting on my TwillTape to arrive
Re: Plastic Bindings on antique guitars
Ok my twill tape came in. So I got my wife to help(needed the extra hands). Any way we got the top done. Messed up in a couple of spots. I do have a stress disorder left over from Vietnam. The sorry part is the closest I got to Vietnam was Heidelburg Germany. Apparently I'm not the only Vet with this disorder. So quick setting glues and hurry up jobs gives me the willies. I can see how it would be a whole lot easier if I could have just used tape and proceeded in a workmanlike manner. It was fun though. Going to tackle the back tomorrow.
Ok next on the agenda is the pretty Pearlescent Blue purfling that goes on next. While practicing on some scrap wood I noticed that the cutter that I bought for my Dremel is just a little larger then the purfling. CRAP. I really don't want to use that cutter but I've looked all over the web and haven't found a smaller one. I'd say the cutter is about at least 1/2 mm larger then the purfling.I guess I could fill it and color over it. But would rather have the correct size. Now I bought the purfling off ebay from a Chinaman in China. Supposedly it's 2mm wide. Any idea's?
Ok next on the agenda is the pretty Pearlescent Blue purfling that goes on next. While practicing on some scrap wood I noticed that the cutter that I bought for my Dremel is just a little larger then the purfling. CRAP. I really don't want to use that cutter but I've looked all over the web and haven't found a smaller one. I'd say the cutter is about at least 1/2 mm larger then the purfling.I guess I could fill it and color over it. But would rather have the correct size. Now I bought the purfling off ebay from a Chinaman in China. Supposedly it's 2mm wide. Any idea's?
Re: Plastic Bindings on antique guitars
Lonnie, there is great satisfaction in rehabilitating old busted guitars. Sometimes you can find a real deal on eBay too. I got a 1965 Guild F-312 with straight grained old-time Brazilian for $375. It has many problems, but given what you have posted, I am sure you could handle them as well as I can.
What apparently happens is someone who is pretty skilled picks up a basket case with great intentions, does some of the work, then loses interest, and it sits until they decide to unload it. Martins go for a lot of bucks anyway, but Guilds that are in the same category of quality don't attract much interest. In this case, I was the only bidder. This is a 50 year old guitar built with a true pre-CITES BRW back and sides set that would cost in the thousand$ bought stand alone today and NOT be 50 years old.
The KMG Mega Mold is especially useful if you like working on basket cases because it adjusts to any shaped instrument and provides all the assistance that custom molds provide, without the hassle and expense of building a mold for each guitar you pick up.
Go man go.
What apparently happens is someone who is pretty skilled picks up a basket case with great intentions, does some of the work, then loses interest, and it sits until they decide to unload it. Martins go for a lot of bucks anyway, but Guilds that are in the same category of quality don't attract much interest. In this case, I was the only bidder. This is a 50 year old guitar built with a true pre-CITES BRW back and sides set that would cost in the thousand$ bought stand alone today and NOT be 50 years old.
The KMG Mega Mold is especially useful if you like working on basket cases because it adjusts to any shaped instrument and provides all the assistance that custom molds provide, without the hassle and expense of building a mold for each guitar you pick up.
Go man go.
John
Re: Plastic Bindings on antique guitars
Thank you John for your interest and your story of the old Guild. Yes I agree with you. There is much pleasure to be obtained from putting old guitars back into working condition.
I must say that there was more to the plastic binding and purfling then I expected. About halfway through I was ready to kill the guy who invented plastic binding. I admit to a few screw ups. But I learned from them. One thing is I doubt I'll try to use binding and purfling on a guitar where I'm trying to save the antique finish. This guitar is for a young lady who is turning ten here pretty soon. Not too long ago she visited with us for an afternoon. She wandered into my music room slash shop and was just standing there staring at a couple antique ukeleles. Her mouth was just hanging open. I walked in and asked her if she played. She just shook her head in amazement. I talked to her mother about selling her one. But she has three girls and her stepdad has two sons. So there kind of the Brady bunch. But to make a long story short there's no way she can afford a quality instrument or lessons.
Well I ran across this old Kay parlor guitar just the body I got for 16 bucks plus shipping. Ordered a black Ebony fretboard and Peghead overlay. Had a couple of pieces of Mahogony used one for the neck saving the other. Got some MOP dots. Made the little body into a classical guitar. So she can learn without the pain steel strings bring. Had a couple thumb wheels so I made a nice bridge. Used a piece of wood with holes drilled in it and a cord to wrap around the Endpeg.The way a tailpiece on a fiddle hooks up. I'll give her free lessons. I'm going to make a deal with her. I'll lend her the guitar and with my teaching. If by Christmas time she can sing "Away in the Manger" and accompany herself on the guitar it's hers for a Christmas present. I'll see that she succeeds. That's why I put all the bling on it. So she will fall in love with it. Well this is a long story but all I have to do is apply the finish. I start that tomorrow. So again good to talk to you John
I must say that there was more to the plastic binding and purfling then I expected. About halfway through I was ready to kill the guy who invented plastic binding. I admit to a few screw ups. But I learned from them. One thing is I doubt I'll try to use binding and purfling on a guitar where I'm trying to save the antique finish. This guitar is for a young lady who is turning ten here pretty soon. Not too long ago she visited with us for an afternoon. She wandered into my music room slash shop and was just standing there staring at a couple antique ukeleles. Her mouth was just hanging open. I walked in and asked her if she played. She just shook her head in amazement. I talked to her mother about selling her one. But she has three girls and her stepdad has two sons. So there kind of the Brady bunch. But to make a long story short there's no way she can afford a quality instrument or lessons.
Well I ran across this old Kay parlor guitar just the body I got for 16 bucks plus shipping. Ordered a black Ebony fretboard and Peghead overlay. Had a couple of pieces of Mahogony used one for the neck saving the other. Got some MOP dots. Made the little body into a classical guitar. So she can learn without the pain steel strings bring. Had a couple thumb wheels so I made a nice bridge. Used a piece of wood with holes drilled in it and a cord to wrap around the Endpeg.The way a tailpiece on a fiddle hooks up. I'll give her free lessons. I'm going to make a deal with her. I'll lend her the guitar and with my teaching. If by Christmas time she can sing "Away in the Manger" and accompany herself on the guitar it's hers for a Christmas present. I'll see that she succeeds. That's why I put all the bling on it. So she will fall in love with it. Well this is a long story but all I have to do is apply the finish. I start that tomorrow. So again good to talk to you John
Re: Plastic Bindings on antique guitars
Lonnie, I think I might have removed the "antique" finish from this particular instrument if I were doing it. Might have made the binding issue easier to solve. I suspect the reason old lacquer sounds better than new lacquer is that it takes so long for lacquer to de-gas. Shellac finishes de-gas much much quicker.
Of course, I would never strip a old Martin unless there was a very compelling reason. Yet there is one very famous project completed by John Greven in which he converted a 1963 Martin 000-28c Brazilian classical to a steel string 000-42 style hybrid that involved removing the original top and of course its "antique" finish. He also thinned the neck so the only original finish retained was on the back and sides. The remodeled guitar is regarded by many as an improvement over the original. I believe the new finish is lacquer. For details hit:
http://www.guitarbench.com/2010/08/05/1 ... -database/
Part of the positive opinion might arise from his use of red spruce from a tree that has joined the ranks of what some call "celebrity wood". Interestingly, the grain is extremely tight for this species, thus divorcing it somewhat from the fame red spruce has acquired because it was used for the legendary pre-war Martins. But 60 lines per inch for red spruce is a quantity that is as respected by many as it is rare. Greven is clearly an excellent repairman, and his web site generously details his technique for retopping:
http://www.grevenguitars.com/retopping-demo.html
Of course, I would never strip a old Martin unless there was a very compelling reason. Yet there is one very famous project completed by John Greven in which he converted a 1963 Martin 000-28c Brazilian classical to a steel string 000-42 style hybrid that involved removing the original top and of course its "antique" finish. He also thinned the neck so the only original finish retained was on the back and sides. The remodeled guitar is regarded by many as an improvement over the original. I believe the new finish is lacquer. For details hit:
http://www.guitarbench.com/2010/08/05/1 ... -database/
Part of the positive opinion might arise from his use of red spruce from a tree that has joined the ranks of what some call "celebrity wood". Interestingly, the grain is extremely tight for this species, thus divorcing it somewhat from the fame red spruce has acquired because it was used for the legendary pre-war Martins. But 60 lines per inch for red spruce is a quantity that is as respected by many as it is rare. Greven is clearly an excellent repairman, and his web site generously details his technique for retopping:
http://www.grevenguitars.com/retopping-demo.html
John
Re: Plastic Bindings on antique guitars
John thanks for that info. Yes it would have been easier I guess to remove the old finish. If it was a good guitar to start with maybe so. But this is an El Cheapo Kay Or Harmony from the fifties or sixties. I don't use lacquer. COPD don't you know. What I've done on this guitar and a few others is replace the missing finish with magic marker. Since only the black is missing this is a very easy thing to do. The I scuff it up real good with #0000 Steel Wool. Then I put a latex glove on my right hand and use a cottonball soaked in tru-oil. A gun stock finishing product. I was a Gunsmith in my younger years. I run the 4-0 steel wool over it between coats. Takes about 3 hours to dry but I let it set up overnight. About six coats of this finish and you can see forever down into it. It doesn't alter the tone any. You never have to worry about dust or foreign matter into the finish as the steel wool removes all that.
Now you can use a fine polish after about a half dozen coats and buff it out. Or you can just not use the steel wool on the final coat. The old finish shines through like a new penny. After all this is a freebie I'm giving to a little girl for Christmas. Made especially to fit her little hands. She doesn't know about it yet. But her Mother does. With my tutoring all she has to do is sing "Away in the Manger" the old Christmas song,and accompany herself on the guitar. Then it's hers to keep. It only takes three cords and you know yourself many of our famous artists have made fortunes with three cords. I hope she enjoys playing for the rest of her life as I have for the last 64 yrs. lol Lonnie
Now you can use a fine polish after about a half dozen coats and buff it out. Or you can just not use the steel wool on the final coat. The old finish shines through like a new penny. After all this is a freebie I'm giving to a little girl for Christmas. Made especially to fit her little hands. She doesn't know about it yet. But her Mother does. With my tutoring all she has to do is sing "Away in the Manger" the old Christmas song,and accompany herself on the guitar. Then it's hers to keep. It only takes three cords and you know yourself many of our famous artists have made fortunes with three cords. I hope she enjoys playing for the rest of her life as I have for the last 64 yrs. lol Lonnie