moving from 14 to 12 fret neck joint?

[ken cierp]

Your question was regarding long and short scale length. The KMG Martin "00" 12th fret stencil is designed for the neck to be attached there, those are primarily short scale but to make it a properly proportioned long scale instrument you move the sound hole and braces as mentioned.

Your friend is mixing apples and oranges -- "some" L00's the same body shape and size as the one you are making, have the neck attached at the 12th, 13th, 14th or even 15th fret. Seems only the bridge plate location is changed and like I said many of these fall apart in short order, some were ladder braced, some were "X" -- I suppose you could research and find samples that are still intact.

Martin has a Norman Blake OM that has a 12th fret neck on a 14th fret body and I believe that the brace pattern is shifted, for sure the bridge plate is moved about 1.25" toward the tail block.

The original Gibson L00's were not considered top of the line at any stretch, the workmanship inside of the ones I've seen was pretty crappy.

[ken cierp]

Here's some info that may clarify or like for me totally confused. IE look at the pictues of Nick Lucas and his guitar models -- clearly 14th fret instruments not 12th fret as legend has it. ---Enjoy!

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/gibson6.html

Does your Gibson expert have a name? Why not get the pattern from him?

[mike-p]

I was in touch with Paul Fox, he didn't volunteer a pattern and I wasn't cheeky enough to ask! The very little i found about his work as a luthier on the net also seemed pretty negative.

According to that infallible fount of perfect truths - the internet- Nick Lucas only played the earlier body shape and only used one or two of them, the rest that he was given he apparently gave away, here he is clearly playing a 12 fret version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sic_2r7-bHI

sweet singing too. The actual model was certainly very varied but i definitely want to make a large body, 12 fret mahogany one, but probably with a cedar top.

[ken cierp]

The guitar in the video is an L0 not an L00

http://www.cncguitarproducts.com/gibson-style-l0.html

Note its a lot smaller and the lower bout is very round -- I have the pattern for those and the mold but I do not offer a kit or even bend the sides.

http://www.luth.org/images/plans/pl06.jpg

[mike-p]

it's very confusing and probably not of great interest to many but i understood that l-0, l-00, l-1 and l-2 all originally had the smaller, rounder shape but i may be wrong and perhaps the l-00 was introduced after all those models had been switched to the larger body shape.

I think I may have a lead on a 12 fret - big body plan, fingers crossed. I'd like to try the smaller version too but I want to stick to the same shape for the moment.

[ken cierp]

I am going to believe what the "Guild of American Luthiers" published -- these are not the same guitars and the drawings/photos are from in process restorations. Don't be confused, as mentiond earlier L00's were made 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th fret plus the Nick Lucas every one likes is a deep body and as far as I know its 14th and perhaps even made of Maple. So follow your dream make it anyway you like -- and call it anything you like. You can see the Nick Lucas my friend Dave constructed in this thread, I know he did a lot of research.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=99

Here's the Gibson Nick Lucas evolution, I knew I had this somewhere -- what I am saying and what is clear in this article is that there is no specific Nick Lucas -- but rather many variation. Enjoy!


http://www.nicklucas.com/guitar-gibsonN ... ecial.html

[Ron Belanger]

Here is a Nick Lucas style base on the L-1 plans from LMI. It was completed and delivered in June. I used an X brace pattern, a 24 1/4 inch scale length and 13 frets to the body. It is a mahogany body and and Adirondack spruce top. I really like the results and am now building one with EIRW back and sides and a sitka spruce top.