Acoustic Guitar Construction in the small shop -- Kenneth Michael Guitars LLC

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 Post subject: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Atkins guitar co. does upon occasion use what they call 'tiny bindings' - just cover the endgrain of the top and back plates, none of the rim is routed.

I like the look a lot, but I like other more traditional schemes as well. My concern with the tiny bindings is that there are no purflings, the importance of which I'm getting more convinced. However with prudent thinning of the perimeter of the top perhaps the lack of purflings would not be that important?

What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Sorry Dave, I've no clue what you mean.
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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:59 pm 
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I thought the purfling mostly decorative. On my guitars they are glued to the portion of the top that are glued to the linings. So I can not see them doing much acoustically. It also seems like you can have the tiny bindings and still cut a channel for purflings.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:01 pm 
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I was referring to the 'hinge' effect of the purfling, in that it effectively thins the perimeter of the plate and adds to the ability of the plate to move.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Does your purfling area generally extend past your linings or kerfed linings? I would have thought that the hinge effect would be at the end of the lining. Where the top is glued to the lining I have to imagine that it is pretty fixed in place.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Gads, you're right of course. Congrats, you passed the test!! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:43 pm 
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maybe works for a violin, where I believe the purfling line and the re-curve that the purfling is in is out past the lining.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:37 pm 
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The fact that top purfling doesn't extend past the lining doesn't mean that there's no "hinge effect." The top is substantially thinner where the purfling is installed. Even if there's full-thickness top fastened to the lining inboard of the purfling, the glue joint there is narrow and won't give as much rigidity to the top as if the full-thickness top extended all the way to the outer binding.

I'd be interested to know if folks who've made many guitars (and I'm still on my first one) have noticed any tonal effect due to the width of the top purfling (e.g., thin purfling vs. an abalone trim around the top).


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Hans Mattes wrote:
The fact that top purfling doesn't extend past the lining doesn't mean that there's no "hinge effect." The top is substantially thinner where the purfling is installed. Even if there's full-thickness top fastened to the lining inboard of the purfling, the glue joint there is narrow and won't give as much rigidity to the top as if the full-thickness top extended all the way to the outer binding.

I'd be interested to know if folks who've made many guitars (and I'm still on my first one) have noticed any tonal effect due to the width of the top purfling (e.g., thin purfling vs. an abalone trim around the top).


I have made them with thin and fat purfling lines and have not noticed any difference. The top is not just sitting on the lining it is glued down. Mechanically I can not see how a filled in purling rebate right above a giant brace (the lining) provides any hinge. There is a huge impedance mismatch between the top and the lining, that reflects the energy back to the top. Thinning the top on the edge (inside of the lining) does increase the impedance mismatch between the lining and the top and can be beneficial. I can not see a thin or fat purfling line doing anything tonally. They are just decorative. While making your fist guitar there will be a bunch of things that you are doing that will make major differences to the sound of the guitar. Selection of purflings is not one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny bindings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Quote:
I have made them with thin and fat purfling lines and have not noticed any difference. The top is not just sitting on the lining it is glued down. Mechanically I can not see how a filled in purling rebate right above a giant brace (the lining) provides any hinge. There is a huge impedance mismatch between the top and the lining, that reflects the energy back to the top. Thinning the top on the edge (inside of the lining) does increase the impedance mismatch between the lining and the top and can be beneficial. I can not see a thin or fat purfling line doing anything tonally. They are just decorative. While making your fist guitar there will be a bunch of things that you are doing that will make major differences to the sound of the guitar. Selection of purflings is not one of them.


Ditto all the way

Now I have read where some teachers have reported an improvement in sound quality when class room project guitars which are not bound during the course have bindings added at a later date -- I think I can buy that since to me the bindings do add structural integrity.

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